 Transcript of live chat (10/19/2005) Host:Susan Phillips |
When I first heard the title of Bryan and Emily Hassel's book, "The Picky Parent Guide: Choose Your Child's School with Confidence," my reaction was skeptical. As a parent, I've learned that schools, like children, are complicated, flawed and interesting, and believed that the search for the perfect school is like the search for the perfect mate: endless, fruitless, possibly misguided. And it's my firm belief that kids learn valuable lessons from imperfect situations, in school or out.
But if you can't judge a school from its glossy four-color brochure, neither can you judge a book by its title. The Hassels know schools, they have reviewed and absorbed the results of who-knows-how-many pieces of research into effective school design, learning styles, leadership, and assessment—and they are parents. They don't put public schools on a pedestal, but they don't underestimate their inherent strengths or deny the existence of truly exceptional public schools. The Hassels understand, too, that there is a corollary to the concept of choosing a school, and that is changing a school—in other words, that in some situations, parents need tools to push their children's current schools to do a better job, and a book like this one can be such a tool.
So it's wonderful to have Emily and Bryan available to chat with Connect for Kids visitors about how to put together a school search process that is productive, reasonable and puts the focus on finding, not some abstract notion of the perfect school, but the real-world school that will best fit your child and your family.
Ruby, Texas: How much difference is there in the social development of children who are placed in private or charter schools vs. public schools?
Bryan and Emily: A great question! Unfortunately, there is no reliable research yet directly comparing long-term social development of children attending K-12 schools of differing types (public, public charter, private). But there's good research that indirectly answers your question, so let us stitch it together for you.
Fact: There's good research showing no consistent difference among school types—private, public, charter, etc.—in how much children learn from start to finish, once socioeconomics are factored out. Put simply, a child with well-educated or wealthier parents will make the same amount of learning progress in any school type as he or she would in another school type, on average. Similarly, a child with poor or less educated parents will make the same progress in any school type as he or she would in another school type, on average. Children of the poor start out behind children of the middle class and wealthy, though, and so end up achieving less in the end, even when they make the same amount of progress. That's in the absence of a great school, of course (which you can learn about in Picky Parent Guide chapters 11-14), in which all kids make far more progress and achieve more than they would in other schools of any type. There's a decent chance this hold true for social and emotional development, too.
Cathy, Washington, DC: Rather than being picky about choosing a school for our children, wouldn't parents best serve their own child and the greater good by being picky about their own local public school and making sure that their school delivers the best service possible to their children?
Bryan: Great question, Cathy. Improving your own child's school is a great way to be picky, and we encourage everyone to roll up their sleeves.
But there are a couple situations when "choice" may be the best route: (1) when the school is just not set up to FIT your child's specific needs, which may be very different from those of others; of (2) when change seems very unlikely. A lot of parents who choose HAVE tried hard to improve their schools—and been frustrated. We can only ask parents to be so patient...
Carol Ryder, Washington, DC: How ambitious should you be in talking to parents who have children in the school?
Emily: The key is to talk with a couple of parents who have children with top needs similar to your child's. Ideally those children will have been in classes with more than one teacher. This gives you a great feel for whether the school consistently meets its mission for children like yours or whether, instead, your child will experience a teacher-by-teacher quality rollercoaster. Two or three parents with kids like yours is enough, and limit it to your top few choice schools.
Karen, Washington, DC: How important is knowing what schools children advance to from a particular elementary school? Is it reasonable to assume that once private always private? Would it be wise to investigate the programs that we would be considering for my child as part of the decision making strategy?
Bryan: A lot of parents ask us this. It's worth knowing this, but it shouldn't be the overwhelming factor in choosing. For example, we'd never recommend choosing a poor-quality or bad fit elementary school in the hope of getting into a middle school that the elementary school feeds. The bad experience your child may have in the early grades may scuttle their chances of getting into the middle school—those early grades are so important.
But if you're choosing between 2 elementary schools and they look pretty comparable on quality and fit—sure, makes sense to look at the "feeder pattern"—could be decisive.
Ruby, Texas: So do you think that there is a positive difference (from attending a great school) once those students get to college or move on to the professional world?
Bryan and Emily: Fact: Students who regularly face challenging but achievable work are more self-motivated and achieve better long-term learning, emotional health and social outcomes into adulthood. There's a tight puzzle's worth of research about child motivation and student acceleration that shows this.
To choose a school of any school type, we identify some Great School Quality Factors. Particularly relevant to your questions are #2 and #3, about schools that expect every child to learn and that monitor progress and adjust teaching to fit the child. In good research studies, these factors have been found over and over in schools where all kids learn more than similar students in other schools. These schools do exactly what the research says. And they get the results: students who show initiative, tenacity and equanimity in the face of challenge.
Those outcomes matter enormously for success at most colleges and in most jobs. You can find these great schools among private, public, public charter, and home schools—you name it. (Of course, some communities have fewer than others—and that can be frustrating for parents.)
Carol Ryder, Washington, DC: When looking at a school, what are some of the red flags you should be looking for?
Emily:
#1 Parents jockeying for the "good" teachers rather than teachers who are a good fit for their children
#2 High grade level scores overall, but dismal scores or low progress/growth for kids like yours in income or previous academic achievement
#3 And this is the big one, schools that say they teach the same thing to all kids and use the same method for all. There is no one-size-fits-all solution for all kids, even in selective schools.
CG, Washington: The Washington Post is reporting that the latest reading scores for 4th and 8th graders by the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) released today show little improvement. How closely should parents watch these testing scores? Thanks!
Bryan: I just spent the morning poring over these myself!
For individual parents thinking about their own kids, these numbers don't mean much. What you need to know is how YOUR CHILD's school, or potential schools, are doing. NAEP doesn't report on individual schools. You need to look at school district test data—and go beyond test data by getting to know what the school is really doing well and poorly.
The numbers ARE important of course for parents as citizens—we all have a stake in better schools, and the NAEP data show we've got a long way to go.
Dave, Alaska: Some people don't like the subject matter of this book, did you lose any friends after writing it?
Emily: No. We have helped a lot of their children—every kid counts to us, and the people who know us know that we love teachers, too (three of our four parents were educators). We think teachers need more support to be great, and more schools need to do what works to help teachers meet every child's learning needs. Even our kids' teachers like us (we think—they let us volunteer in the classrooms, and they freely tell us their opinions about education matters!).
Beth, GA: As a public school teacher how can I better address some of the concerns your book brings to parents?
Bryan: Beth, we urge parents to focus on two things: the quality of the school and how well it FITS their children and families. We encourage parents to focus on a couple of critical "quality factors" when assessing a school—(1) how high the school sets expectations, both for kids who are struggling and for kids who are average and ahead, and (2) how well the school monitors each child's learning and adjusts teaching accordingly. It turns out that schools that do these things well are not only great in quality, but are also likely to fit more children.
So I'd put the same tips your way—how can you focus on those two quality factors in your own classroom? Better yet, what can you do to help your school as a whole support teachers better as they try to set high expectations and then meet many children's differing needs? We know that's incredibly difficult for a lone teacher—great schools give teachers lots of support to make it happen.
Dalia Elsouhag My name is Dalia and I have two kids, a 6-year-old son and a 4-year-old daughter. I was wondering where can I find good schools for them, keeping in mind that we are a conservative family and it's hard to explain to kids that age why certain words or expressions cannot be said while everyone arround them is using that language. At the same time I don't want a Catholic school because we are are not Christians. How do I balance wanting a school with good education and morals but at the same time wanting one that is not religious...do these schools even exist? If so what are they called? Thank you for your help.
Answer:
Bryan and Emily: You're not alone in your concern about values. The question to start with is this: which values? Many religions across the world share surprisingly similar ones. Because of this, you may find public schools that reinforce values important to you. For instance, some schools focus on community service, which can include serving the poor, respecting others personally, and caring for people in your community even when you disagree with their ideas, and so on. You might see uniforms in such a school or you might find no dress code (aside from basic decency) at all. Other schools claim to have "strong family values," but a closer look will reveal students who are plain old mean to each other (and teachers who do not call them on it), teachers who are harsh and unkind, a lack of respect for differing ideas, and caring for the disadvantaged only in a once-a-year food drive (what school doesn't have that?). Picky Parent Guide has a series of special boxes in chapters 6 – 10 that help you articulate and consider your values in choosing a school.
So, try making a list of your top values. Then ask schools how they approach these values in classroom content (what is taught), classroom discipline, extracurricular activities, and whether teachers intervene to teach values at informal social times (playground, lunch). (Again, Picky Parent Guide helps you here.) If the top school for you is of another religion, you should commit to being frank with your children about your own beliefs and how they are both similar to and different from the religion of the school. You won't be alone in most cases. Nor will this be the only value on which you find differences with other parents; if you were able to choose a school focused on your religion, you would no doubt find many families with values very different from yours on other matters (e.g., the importance of money, tolerance for differing beliefs). If your religion differs from the religion of the school you choose, let your children know that the quest for meaning and purpose raises us up as humans. It's your own personal commitment to beliefs, values and rituals of your own religion that matter to you and your children. One caveat: If your religion or the religion of the school is evangelical—highly committed to converting others—you will be putting your children in a difficult position.
Susan, CFK: How should a parent of a child with a significant learning or other disability go about assessing a school's openness to kids who are different?
Emily: By "openness" I assume you mean socially. The first step is to find out if the school can meet your child's learning needs. Most children with disabilities can shine at school when the disability is addressed but not treated as all-defining. Second, ask for names of 2 - 3 parents of children with similar disabilities. How have their children fared academically and socially? If you feel uncomfortable doing that (we know some people are shy about "cold calls" even to other parents), then you should visit the school: if your child's disability is physically noticeable, observe how children with obvious disabilities are treated by teachers and other students. Are they alone at recess and lunch or socially integrated? Are they left out of class discussions or fully included?
Cindy, MA: Is there an area of choice you think you missed or one that you will focus on more in the next edition?
Bryan: Cindy, please let us know if YOU think we missed something—maybe we can address it today!
One I'd mention—our book focuses on the elementary years. Most of the same ideas and principles apply to middle and high—you're still looking for a great school that's a great fit for your child and family's top needs. But we get a lot of questions from parents of middle and high-schoolers—and it would be great to address them more directly.
But the basic ideas and tools in the book, which walk parents through a process of identifying their top needs, understanding quality, and finding the best school have worked well for parents using them.
Cathy, Jonesboro: Have we passed the point of no return for the concept of great neighborhood schools?
Bryan Cathy, great question, and definitely not. A lot of parents would really like their children to attend a neighborhood school, and there are lots of benefits—everything from attending school with kids in the neighborhood to just being close by enough for parents to visit and volunteer.
What's changed is parents AUTOMATICALLY going that route. More parents are saying, I'd love my kid to go to the neighborhood school, but only if I think there's a good education to be had there. Neighborhood schools means something different if you live in a tough neighborhood where the schools have struggled.
We hope some day all schools will be great. In the meantime, neighborhood schools will continue to thrive, but amidst a growing number of options.
Robert Currie: The whole idea of school choice is an intriguing one. If you saw the
new tv series with Geena Davis as president, you know her daughter on the show wants to go to private school, not public school so she can be with "her friends and people who are like us."
The research points toward the success of students from a low SES who attend schools where the students are from a high SES. I'm not sure what the magic number is before the needs of students from low SES neighborhoods overwhelm the school itself or before high SES families move their students out of the 'neighborhood' schools. If we know that mix, why wouldn't we make sure that public schools reflect it so that optimal learning takes place? As it stands now, we're not sufficiently committed to democracy and to equal opportunity as we purport to be. I'll take care of mine, before I take care of ours. Do the authors even attempt to address this larger issue? If not, why not? If so, what do they find?
Bryan and Emily: This is a great question. And with some surprising answers. As you'll see in Chapter 9 of Picky Parent Guide (and later in Chapters 11 – 14 about the real, research-proven indicators of school quality), many people—parents, educators, and policymakers—often make false assumptions about how student body diversity and school assignment affect learning. There are a plethora of policy books about schools and school choice. Many are filled with wishful thinking, political rhetoric and generalizations that do not help parents or educators take care of children. We think parents are smart enough to grasp high-quality research findings and take action. So that's what we provided, without wrapping it up in politics.
While many parents prefer a more diverse—or less diverse—environment, these social values often are not related to how much students learn academically. Your larger question cuts to the heart of why we wrote Picky Parent Guide. Until we began this project, 100% of our work was focused on improving access of low-income families to high-quality schools. Our efforts were vexed by many challenges, including lack of knowledge among even well-educated parents about how to choose schools where every kid learns. Even now, the majority of our work continues to focus on low-income children, but we care about every child, rich or poor or in between. Let's untangle some of these issues here. We hope these facts help you feel comfortable with parents who "get picky:"
Surprise #1: Schools that look "good" because they are have high percentages of students achieving at grade level often in fact are pretty mediocre for many kids. If a great majority of kids in a school are middle class and up, then the school ought to be 100% at grade level, and most kids should be achieving far above grade level, making enormous progress beyond G.L. each year. Unfortunately, that "growth above grade level" number often is not reported. So these schools look great but really aren't—many kids are bored, and some kids are needlessly struggling until the bitter end. Since good studies show that not just achievement at grade level, but also continued progress, make for highly motivated long-term achievers (and happy children, to boot), be careful assuming that those 90%-at-grade-level, largely-middle-class schools are so great for children.
Surprise #2: Sadly, the positive learning effect of "perfect integration" racially and socio-economically is surprisingly small for poor kids. Another surprise: even middle class white kids learn a little less in very homogeneous schools. But again the learning effect is very small. When standardized test scores began to be calculated by income (and race) in the 1990's under Clinton, there was a huge "yikes" factor: the strategy we had all hoped would work was not working for millions of children. Even schools with "perfect integration" by and large produce deplorable learning results for poor children. Even those who hate standardized tests, when they really think about it, agree that knowing enough to pass reading and basic math tests is a threshold for economic opportunity in the U.S. The bottom line: economically integrated schools alone just don't make enough of a difference to enough poor kids to rely on this strategy alone to solve the problem. By the way, an educated guess based on the best research to date tells us that the "perfect mix" for this small learning effect is roughly 20% - 40% low-income kids in a school. But rural and urban school districts find this difficult to achieve for a variety of reasons. And it's become harder to develop political will when the learning results of perfect integration are not consistently stellar and compelling for poor kids.
Of course, social values matter, too. For those of us who value tolerance and respect for others—for our children and for society as a whole—integrated schools matter not just for the academic effect on poor kids. Kids who attend integrated schools are more likely to choose to live in more diverse areas as adults. It still does not solve the learning problem for poor kids—and learning/economic success is the ultimate integrator—but it's something.
Susan, CFK: Emily, following up on the issue of kids with disabilities, what are the key things a parent should look for in trying to determine if a school is pursuing an appropriate level of inclusion for disabled students?
Emily: A great question in part because there is no stock answer! The currently accepted standard is the greatest level of inclusion that allows the individual child to develop intellectually, socially, emotionally and physically. So you really have to know your own child and ideally get the school's help monitoring developmental progress and making small adjustments along the way as needed. Children with extreme disabilities like Autism may be able to be included for short periods of time in a classroom of typical kids—usually with a coach at hand—but children with milder Aspergers often may participate fully in a typical class, with coaching only at special times. Some children with dyslexia can fully catch up to typical kids with as little as 80 hours of special, intensive instruction; then they should be in the regular classoom full time with occassional special monitoring. But other children with very severe disabilities (no more than an estimated 1%) may always need a separate environment for most of the school day.
Anita, Detroit: I'm glad someone raised the issue of high school in this discussion. My good friends have a son who left a great private high school to complete his senior year at a public school. His reason was all about fit—he's an aspiring artist and his previous high school had no art classes at all. Comment?
Bryan: A child's very strong interests are one of the things to consider when determining "fit." At the elementary level, most kids don't have strong interests that affect a school choice—trucks and Barbies don't count! But at the high school level it's a different story and it sounds like art rose to level of a "strong" interest in this case—so definitely worth considering a switch in this case.
That said—I wouldn't advise moving down a notch in academic quality to meet that interest. Even aspiring artists need a strong academic training in high school! And there may be other ways to meet a child's artistic interests OUTSIDE of school—through community college, other community classes, etc.)
Susan, CFK: When you start talking about school choice for older kids, middle and high school, obviously the students themselves will have a lot to say. How big a role should they have in choosing their own school?
Bryan: Oh, they'll definitely have a lot to say! And it makes sense to involve them in the choice, especially as they get older. A big part of success in the middle and high years is engagement in school—you want a school where your child is most likely to be "turned on" to learning, and so you want to know what your child thinks would be an engaging school for her.
At the same time, we hear about a lot of conflicts between parents and older children. The typical story: the child wants to choose a less academically rigorous school because of, say, the social environment. The parent leans toward academic rigor. It's impossible to make one recommendation that covers all cases, but parents should remember this: you have a perspective on this question your children may still lack. It's hard for them to really see the consequence of a low-quality secondary school education. You know it's the ticket to college and success later in life, but not all 13-year-olds see it that way. This is (part of) what being a parent is all about.
Isaiah, TX: In the NCLB debate how has your book been used by supporters/detractors?
Bryan: Interesting question, I can't say I know—I haven't seen it used one way or the other. We tried VERY HARD to make the book non-political. It's not advocating for a particular school policy, like No Child Left Behind's choice provisions—but instead trying to help each individual parent take full advantage of whatever choices are available.
Sam, KS: Do you think the public school systems devestated by Hurricane Katrina will rebuild/re-organize with some of the issues in your book in mind?
Bryan: It's hard to fathom the devastation and suffering folks there must be feeling, I'm sure it's difficult to think about things like how to rebuild schools. But there are some encouraging signs coming from the area's leaders. Pre-Katrina, the schools in New Orleans were truly struggling. Post-Katrina, leaders do seem to see an opportunity to build something fundamentally different. Giving parents choices is part of what the Mayor and others are calling for, so that's encouraging. We hope the next generation of schools there can be built from the start to meet the needs of each child.
Cecilia, CFK: What has your experience been regarding foster parents and their challenges in finding the best schools for their foster kids?
Emily: Another great question. I like the tough ones! We have not had experience helping foster parents. But if one came to me today, here's what I would advise:
1) Most foster children will need social and emotional counseling/coaching. Even if some of that happens outside of school, the school will need to be adept at recognizing stress, helping the child identify his/her own stress triggers, and learning to calm himself/herself and practice self-control.
2) When a foster parents knows little about a child, school quality matters a lot. I would advise the foster parent to focus on Great School Quality Factors #2 and #3 in our book. If a school is doing those, then it will identify and meet the individual child's needs better than other schools and ensure continued learning so the child does not lose a year of development.
3) Get to know school staff and help the child transition (or stay afloat if there is no school change involved). Meet with the principal and assigned teachers immediately. Send notes about progress and problems at home. Often that completes the picture a teacher needs to help a child stay on an even keel emotionally and focused on learning. Ask their advice about how to help the child make and keep friends—very hard when a child has been uprooted or has what feels like an embarrassing home situation.
Cindy, MA: Your book covered so much, but maybe the next edition could include info about the general health of the students?
Bryan: Cindy, good suggestion. Our book puts a lot of emphasis on academics. Not that it completely ignores a more holistic set of concerns, like the child's social and emotional health and the values that are fostered (or not) in schools. But yes, the emphasis is squarely on finding a school in which your child is most likely to succeed in the core academic subjects.
We took that angle for a couple of reasons. First, it's very important! Early academic success builds on itself, leading to opportunities beyond school that can make a huge difference in a person's overall life trajectory. Parents ought to be very very picky when it counts—and this is something that truly counts. Second, we think academic success is an important underpinning to other aspects of a child's health. We have so many stories of kids who, upon finding a great school that fits, don't just surge academically, but also become happier and "healthier" in the broad sense. So it's a good place to start!
Robert Currie: In our school district it seems as though the schools of choice differ from neighborhood schools as much by socio-economic status as by a particular focus or teaching style. Students do well in these schools. The question is: why don't we make this available to all students?
Bryan and Emily: Your concern is quite valid. The more that options are constrained within a public choice system – by zones, home school preference, scarcity of popular options, lock-step school-day schedules and the like – the less democratic and effective for children it will be. This is a huge policy problem. And it is positively maddening for parents. Well-intended administrators can try to guess what children in differing areas will need. But, really, low-income parents who have no option except public schools need maximum opportunity to match each individual child's needs to schools. And they'll use it, which leads to another surprising fact . . .
Surprise #3: Poor parents, when given a public choice, are among the pickiest in America. Low-income and the least educated parents aware that they have a choice among public schools opt out of assigned schools at a rate tying the very richest and most highly educated parents in the U.S. The middle class is more complacent (maybe assuming those homogeneous, 90% at grade level schools are just fine?).
If this issue interests you, you'll find more here: Wirt, J., Choy, S., Rooney, P., Provasnik, S., Sen, A., and Tobin, R. (2004). The Condition of Education 2004 (NCES 2004-077). U.S. Department of Education, National Center for Education Statistics. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government printing Office. (See Indicator 25: Parental Choice of Schools.) See it online at: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/2004/pdf/05_2004.pdf [1]
No surprise: The school actions that it takes to be a great school for middle class kids are the same ones that produce stellar results for poor kids. But too many schools are complacent and lack leaders who get the whole school doing what works. Teachers are left on their own without good assessment tools to understand children and good instructional devices to meet differing needs. Many assume poor kids can't learn and that grade level is good enough for the rest. That's why parents can get "picky" without guilt. Even if parents don't use what they learn to choose schools, they can use it to improve their children's schools. Learning the seven Picky Parent Guide Great School Quality Factors (which repeated research shows distinguish schools where all kids learn more) and pushing for whole schools and districts to do what works is critical. Focusing on student assignment may help some kids a little, but improving school quality will help all kids more. Every child will benefit, from struggling middle class kids to low-income gifted children who desperately need schools to expect much more of them.
Jhunda, MO: Has your book been read more by parents of public or private shool students?
Emily: We obviously need to do some marketing research! Seriously, my sense from the questions we get is that it's a mix. We get a disproportionate number of questions from parents who live in cities with public school choice (district schools and charters). Many of them are hoping to avoid the wallet-shrinking tuition at private schools, but they want to do so with confidence. Some say they cannot afford private school at all, period. Others are choosing only among private schools, but that's the minority. Poor parents are as active in making school choices as wealthy, so we think that's an important set of parents to reach.
From: Cecilia, Washington: With the cost of living being what it is these days, it's pretty common for families to have both parents working. What suggestions do you have for making the time in an already full schedule
to do the kind of research your book recommends?
Bryan and Emily: A great question. And one with a simple answer: you can't do it all. One "school expert" recounted for us how he had a list of 100 questions (not from our book, by the way), and he visited 15 schools and tried to ask them all. Big surprise: at the end of his whirlwind tour, he could not distinguish among schools and had spent a lot of time!
Instead, here's what we recommend in Picky Parent Guide: focus on your child and family's one or two top fit needs and Great School Quality Factors #2 and #3. Think, "Great School, Great Fit." You don't need to know everything about a school, just what counts for a great learning experience for your child. If you have time for nothing else, skim Chapter 11 (19 pages) plus these tools: Child and Family Needs Summaries and Great School Quality Checklist (7 pages total). Narrow your hunt quickly to three to five schools with high prospects. Use the websites listed in the sidebar to screen out schools with dismal overall results or disappointing ones for children like yours.
Great School Quality Factor # 2 is High Expectations. That means that the school truly expects that every child can make grade level—and it shows in the results and in what every teacher does. There are no excuses, only reasons for trying something new with kids who are not making it. Kids who are already at grade level should get all-you-can-eat learning: teachers continue raising the goals well beyond grade level when kids are ready for the next level of learning. Great School Quality Factor #3 is Monitoring Progress and Adjusting Teaching. This means that individual students' progress is monitored often (every six weeks minimum, weekly is ideal). When a kid's progress stalls, the teachers try a new approach. When a child masters material quickly, the goals are raised. Chapter 11 describes these two factors in brief and Chapter 12 covers them in detail.
Anonymous: Following up to your answer to Robert Currie, are you familiar with the economic integration plan that is being used in Wake County, North Carolina? The New Times reported recently that children of color in that county have made great progress in their test scores since the implementation of this plan.
Bryan: First, let me say that we as parents very much value integration as a social goal, and we've chosen an integrated public school for our kids. The fight for integration has been one of the greatest moral causes of our era.
Still, we were troubled by the NY Times story on Wake county. For several reasons: (1) The number quoted to show how well African-American students are doing in Wake overstates the case. 80% of African-American students passed EITHER reading or math last year, but only 70% passed both—that's still a lot of kids left behind, and not very much higher than the state average for African-American students. (2) Wake is more economically advantaged than the state's other urban centers, so we'd expect kids of all races to come out a little ahead. Low-income kids in Wake do about the same on the tests as low-income kids statewide; (3) Wake's been integrated for a long time, so integration can't explain the increase in scores they've seen over the past several years—that's probably more due to the state's accountability system demanding more from schools.
Again, we laud Wake's efforts to integrate because it's a great social goal. The evidence that it's also a great educational tool isn't that strong. We all wish it were, but for the sake of the kids we need to keep trying other things as well.
Susan, CFK: Sometimes parents wrestle with the question of school choice when things get off to a bad start in their child's classroom—it may seem like the teacher doesn't like or doesn't suit the child. What are some clear signs that it is time to think about moving your child, and when might a parent want to hold off and try to work with the situation?
Emily: We have a list of reasons that a parent might consider a switch [2] on PickyParent.com.
Basically, if your child is not making progress academically or is miserable socially after about six weeks in school, it's time to meet with the teacher. Share your child's top needs and ask how you can work together. Many times teachers rise to the occasion once they understand your child better, and sometimes it just takes a little help from you!
Isaiah, TX: If you do write a book for high school students, would you ever suggest that a student leave school early to work, like get a GED?
Bryan: It's hard to sit at my computer screen and give global advice on this. I'm sure there are lot of cases where a student more or less has no choice—has to leave school to support a family. Or if a child has a great economic opportunity, this might be a good move.
But let's consider the case of a student with a more standard choice—stick it out and finish high school, or leave and go for a GED. I wouldn't advise that. First, research suggests that a GED, while better than nothing, is not as good as a full high school diploma when it comes to, say, getting a good-paying job. Second, going out of high school may mean never getting that GED—time could drag on, etc. And we know high school dropouts do much worse on just about every "life outcome." So in that standard case, we'd say—stay in school.
Susan: Our time is up!
Thanks, everyone, for joining our chat, and thank you again, Bryan and Emily.