 Transcript of live chat (6/28/2006) |
One of the many images that sticks with me from Nell Bernstein's book about the children of the incarcerated is that of Susana, aged 13, hugging her father until a police officer pulls her forcibly from his arms. It's the only time she ever remembers hugging her Dad, who is serving 21 years to life. He had been allowed to attend his brother's funeral, though he remained under guard, shackled and in his prison jumpsuit. Susana, who is in a juvenile detention facility when we first meet her, is living proof that one hug is really not enough.
Like our ever-growing prison population itself, the growing numbers of children with an incarcerated parent are a hidden population. Making these 2-and-a-half million children visible, as Bernstein does here, is the first important step towards finding ways we can make their lives better and their prospects brighter. Connect for Kids is lucky to have Nell join us on-line to discuss her book and the policies and practices that could help.
Jadine Johnson, Washington D.C.: Finding reliable data about the number of children with incarcerated parents can be difficult. What sources do you pull from (particularly the "one out of every 10") stat? Many Thanks!!
Nell: It's true that data is hard to come by—there is generally no requirement that police, jails, prisons, parole and probation departments, etc., so much as ask about the existene of children, so most of the data that exists is based on extrapolation. My sources overall are too numerous to list; they are all in the footnotes to my book. Christopher Mumola at the Bureau of Justice Statistics keeps the most up-to-date numbers I know of overall. One in ten: according to the Federal Resource Center for Children of Prisoners [1], there are 7 million kids with a parent under criminal justice supervision. According to the census (at the time I wrote the book) there are 70 million children in the U.S. Hence one in ten.
Rey Carr: Funding has been made available throught the US government to provide mentoring for children of incarcerated parents. In our view the majority of these programs interfere with improving relationships between parents and children. What is your view about these types of programs?
Nell: In general I agree with your concerns, and have heard similar ones from people who work directly w/children and families. I think mentors can be wonderful for kids in many situations—I've met some great ones, and kids who've absolutely benefited from those relationships—but they are no substitute for parents. A strong mentoring program, I believe, educates mentors about the importance of respecting and helping maintain parent/child relationships. Without that component the risk you're describing is a real one, as is the risk of the child simply not connecting w/the mentor if doing so means a split loyalty. And even the best mentoring program is no substitute for public policy that supports families, including those where a parent is incarcerated, and fosters rather than undermines family connections
Janis, Virginia: Marcy Viboch has written a brief report on the connection between childhood experiences of loss and children's behavioral problems. She suggests that asking children who regularly misbehave whether they have lost someone they love, and responding constructively if the answer is yes, can be very helpful to children. Do you have ideas or sources for how to talk to children about their feelings of anger, grief, anxiety or sadness about missing their incarcerated mom or dad?
Nell: Great question, and great suggestions—and I'm certain that if caring adults asked that question of hurting children they'd start hearing lots of stories of parental incarceration. There is a lot of shame and stigma around THIS particular loss—which makes it both more challenging and especially important that kids be given the space to talk about it. A very small number of schools have support groups for kids in this situation, and there are summer camps specifically for them in a few states (Project Avary [2] in CA runs a great one)—being in the company of others who share the experience of having an incarcerated parent can be a comfort, and can open the doors to communicating about this loss. The key I've found is simply to withhold judgement, of the child and also of the parent—kids identify with their parents and won't open up if they sense even a whiff of judgement (at the same time, they need space to express the anger they may well feel towards their parent). Thank you for thinking about this.
Jan, CFK: Can you tell us a little bit about the Children of Incarcerated Parents' Bill of Rights project?
Nell: I work with a group called the San Francisco Children of Incarcerated Parents Partnership. We have developed a bill of rights for children of incarcerated parents (you can see it at www.sfcipp.org) and are working with police, sheriff, etc. in SF to try to implement those rights in our city (the board of superintendents has also endorsed). Others around the country are also working on what we are calling "rights to realities" initiatives aimed at securing these rights for children—the Osborne Assocation [3] in NY, Arkansas Voices for the Children Left Behind, and a few others. Dee Ann Newell (lujo@aristotle.net) from Arkansas Voices will be working full time this year to seed initiatives in other places—contact her for more info, and/or see our website.
liz Michigan: The criminal justice system here allows visits to parents, phone calls and letters between family members, pictures, and gifts to their kids to be sent. Visits are normally restricted due to the type of crime committed or because of behavior while incarcerated.
The question should be how much contact should allowed under these conditions. Some victims will never have the choice of seeing their children or other family members. What is fair to all concerned?
Nell: The question of how to be fair both to prisoners and to victims of crime is important�but it is distinct from the question of what KIDS need and deserve�which to me is the central question here. I advocate for frequent contact visits in child-friendly settings because I think KIDS need it, period. The kids did not commit the crime, and to set their needs in opposition to those of the children of crime victims is essentially to hold them responsible for their parents� actions. The kids, by the way, get this message loud and clear�many I spoke with described feeling blamed, stigmatized, punished, etc. because their parent had broken the law.
The majority of parents in state prison committed a non-violent crime. But in any case, and regardless of the act that brought a parent to prison, as my friend and colleague Emani Davis�one of the world�s great experts on this subject�has observed, prison IS the punishment. There is nothing gained by extracting a pound of flesh from children as well by limiting visitation in the name of crime victims.
CMae Robeson Brooklyn New York: Thinking of an incarcerated parents' inability to assist in the educational processes of their child, have there been any funds or organizations set in place to address the sensitive social and educational needs of the boys and girls in grades 3- 8? Since these are the grades in which most need educational guidance and enrichment.
Nell: I don�t know of a program that meets this description, although I imagine it exists somewhere. In general, there is very little support aimed specifically towards children whose parents are incarcerated. Here and there I�ve heard stories of teachers who make the trek to the prison for a parent-child conference�with benefits for all involved.
Sandy, FL: What do you think about programs that provide books on tape recorded by incarcerated parents, for their children to listen to between visits? I know that Scholastic and Volunteers of America collaborate on a project like this (I think it's called Words Travel) in limited locations. I wonder sometimes about trying to get something like this going in my area, but I also wonder if this is a simplistic, naive or meaningless gesture in the face of the large issues that these children deal with. Thanks!
Nell: Simplistic, possibly; meaningless, no. I think this falls under the umbrella of "anything is better than nothing" when it comes to contact between children and an incarcerated parent. Yes, let's record stories—kids enjoy them and it keeps the parents engaged as parents. But sometimes I run "solutions" like this by the "what if it were my child" test. If my children were separated from me, for whatever reason, would I want to be able to tape record stories? Absolutely. Would I consider that adequate? Absolutely not! I'd want, and they'd need, regular physical contact and a good-faith effort to solve whatever problem had caused our separation to begin with.
Joni, Seattle: What was your observation of court ordered visits between dependent children and incarcerated parents? Were they monitored well? By whom?
Nell: I'm not sure I observed exactly this kind of visit. In general, "monitoring" ranges from a few guards in a crowded room to, more rarely, therapeutic visiting programs where parents are given support and guidance in interacting w/their children.
Chicago, IL: Please provide us with any states that have model laws we would want to consider trying to pass elsewhere.
Nell: Oregon is a leader in this regard (see Chapter 7 of my book)�they passed legislation several years ago which has led to a real family focus in the prison system there and has encouraged the community to engage with children affected by incarceration in the outside. We�ve taken a step in California, where I live, by passing legislation which allows an arrested parent to make two phone calls to arrange for the care of her child, and there is broader legislation in the works. Washington State passed legislation designating a commission which is now making recommendations to the legislature, and New Mexico is launching something similar via executive order.
Yolanda, Missouri: Your book is a fantastic resource! What do you see as the top 10 issues that these children struggle with?
Nell: Top ten—that covers the whole book. For a list I'd encourage you to look at the bill of rights (www.sfcipp.org). Let me pick two to start: kids need regular physical contact with their parents in a child-friendly environment. Most don't get even this—the majority of women prisoners never receive a single visit from their children. Most of all, I believe they need sentencing reform. One in ten american kids has a parent in jail, in prison, on probation or on parole TODAY—many more have had this experience. We are the world's most prolific jailer by far. We need to think about ways of dealing w/crime and punishment—and especially drug addiction—that don't leave so very many children parentless to begin with.
Michele Byrnes, San Francisco, CA: Do you have any idea how many children are placed into foster care as a result of a parent's incarceration?
Nell: I believe about 10 percent of women prisoners and 2 or 3 percent of men have a kid in foster care. That doesn't necessarily mean the incarceration precipitated the foster care placement. Smaller studies of kids in long-term foster care have found as many as 90% have experienced parental incarceration. There's clearly a large overlap between these two systems but the research to map that intersection is mostly still underway.
Danielle, Vermont: Has there been any good system developed to inquire about children's whereabouts when a parent is arrested/incarcerated, that not only identifies the numbers of children and where they are, but passes that info. on to child serving agencies so they can connect with these kids and provide services like mental health counseling, health screenings, WIC, whatever?
Nell: No, no and no. This is a huge problem. This book was inspired for me by a kid I met 10 years ago when I was reporting on foster care. At nine, he spent two weeks alone caring for his baby brother after police arrested his mother and simply left him behind. I thought it was a fluke, but over and over now I've heard these stories—from kids and also police themselves. (Most often not as extreme as this situation; often the kids are at school or just playing outside and no one askes the arrestee if she's got kids). There is no requirement that ANY system—police, jails, prisons, parole and probation—that deals with an arrested parent so much as ask about kids (with a few local exceptions). This is something we are working on under the Bill of Rights Initiative.
Martha, Washington, DC: We hear a lot about young boys with incarcerated fathers and how it affects them. What about the effects of incarcerated mothers on their sons? Have you noticed a difference?
Nell: I've talked to lots of kids but not done a formal "study"—I'm not sure I can make a general statement except to say that in my experience boys miss and need their mothers, girls their fathers, etc etc.
Lois Denaut, Henderson, Nevada: Why isn't there any program to facilitate communication between siblings and parents of incarcerated families?
I worked for Clark County in Juvenile Records for two years.
I inputted juvenile criminal and abuse and neglect cases for Clark County Family and Youth Services.
I also pulled files for the State and County Social Workers.
I noticed that family names kept popping up over and over.
I honestly believe that if some kind of group or support system was put in place to assist these families ongoing, they would not keep ending up in jail, foster homes, etc.
A lot of the cases I saw involved illegal drugs, prescription drugs, alcohol, and domestic violence.
A lot of the families seemed to have a lot of mental and financial problems.
I strongly believe that if there was a central ongoing support system or group these people could access continually; not just when their case was over; there would be better success in building stronger family ties, better health, mental, and financial support.
It just seemed like we were recycling a lot of the parents, children, and grandparents through the system, costing more money for the taxpayer, more destruction physically and mentally of the various family members.
Here in Clark County, Nevada, our population has grown from about 900,000 in 1990 to close to 2 million people in 2006 from all kinds of backgrounds, cities, states, countries, and different languages.
There is a great need for a continuing support group to be established to help these people get back on track permanently, instead of just being in a revolving door in and out of the system.
It is injuring the mental and physical well-being of many children.
Unfortunately, these same children will probably grow up and get into the same revolving door, costing more money to taxpayers and destroying more families!!!
Lois Denaut, Henderson, Nevada
Nell: Overall, I think you�ve hit the nail on the head�if we invested our resources in supporting struggling families, rather than dealing with addiction in particular via incarceration and then trying in vain to mop up the mess we�ve left behind, we�d be well ahead of the status quo.
One thing: although there is a correlation between parental incarceration and children winding up incarcerated themselves, I try to be careful about implying that that is somehow inevitable�I�ve seen so many children struggle against terrific odds NOT to wind up in trouble, and succeed brilliantly, and sometimes our best-intentioned warnings become self-fulfilling prophecies, or at least add to the stigma of having an incarcerated parent. Growing up in foster care, by the way, is a significantly stronger prediction of future incarceration than is growing up with a criminal justice-involved parent.
Jonesboro,Georgia: How can we help the kids and keep them from being a part of the criminal justice system? We need to get to these kids young. We need responsible adult mentors especially males.
Nell: Don't mean to sound like a broken record but, perhaps with a few exceptions, I think the best way to support vulnerable kids is to support struggling families. While there is a relationship between parental incarceration and a child's future risk of incarceration, the BEST predictor there is of future incarceration is foster care—which indicates that the "solution" may not in fact lie outside families. The best in-custody parenting (and rehab) programs I've seen—as in Oregon and those the Osbore Assocation runs in NY—encourage parents to take responsibility for their crimes and for their absence from their children's lives, and communicate that to their kids. When this happens—and when parents are given a genuine shot at rehabilitation, and kids can see that happen—this can be a very powerful way to "get to" kids.
Ruth Howze from Allegheny County-Pittsburgh, PA: Allegheny County has made great strides to address this issue (redesigning the county jail waiting area to make it more child friendly, create a staff position to address the systems that poorly serve this population and revised child welfare protocol to assist the correctional system with facilitating contact visits), but most of our financial support has been from the private sector, i.e foundations and private donors.
How can we get more buy-in with the state and federal government to recognize children as the true victims to parent incarceration? There are no funding streams to address this issue specifically and there is so much legislation to create barriers for ex-offenders that they make it almost impossible for individuals to start over.
Nell: You are reading my mail! I recently had the pleasure of meeting Claire Walker from your Child Guidance Foundation [4] and have learned a bit about the wonderful work being done in the Pittsburgh area. But you are right�we need buy-in from the state and federal government really to affect change. While the federal government has recently taken an interest in re-entry services, you are absolutely right�for families to have a shot at reuniting we need first to lift the multiple barriers, many enacted by federal and state law, that keep people coming out of prison from working, securing housing and caring for the children.
Jill Parents as teachers national center, St. Louis, MO: I am a trainer and was training a couple of weeks ago in Phoenix in a Head Start. They are employing parent educators to share child development information with prisoners who have children in the early years, birth to Kindergarten entry. They also are encouraging the attachment between the parent and their children. They have book sharing where the parent records a book for bedtime routines. Do you know of additional ways to support the attachment for the families?
Nell: This sounds good—I think it's so important when "mainstream" orgs. like Head Start and the Girl Scouts reach out to incarcerated Parents. One of the best programs I saw was an Early Head Start program held twice-weekly in a portable on the grounds of the women's prison in Oregon. I do think its important that those who offer, say, child development information to prisoners are trained in issues specific to parenting from behind bars, and to children of incarcerated parents—I've seen less-successful efforts as well, where an incarcerated parent is schooled in, say, the food pyramid....
Best way to support the attachment? Regular contact visitation. If the facilities where you live don't offer it, try to work with them to provide it.
Susan, CFK: Do privacy concerns sometimes get in the way of good practice? I'm thinking about kids in middle school or above, who may be too embarrassed to let anyone at their school know that they have an incarcerated parent — but who could really use some extra help and support.
Nell: Yes, that is an issue. One of my favorite programs is the ROOTS program, in the SF Bay Area, run by Community Works. They offer all kinds of expressive arts aimed at children of incarcerated parents but it's really known on campus not as a "support group" per se but as a place where you can learn about theater, etc. It has become so popular that kids bring their friends—the opposite of stigma.
Sometimes I think what's needed is the equivalent of the gay/straight alliances that have sprung up on some campuses—I believe that if students were educated about this issue they'd want to support their classmates and help reduce the stigma (i've seen this happen too).
Rebecca Burmester Raleigh, NC: We have fostered several children (newborn infants) whose mothers were in prison. We committed to weekly visitation at the prison. One of the children we have adopted, one is with his birth family (we still have regular contact), and one was surrendered for adoption. How important is regular contact of parent and child?
Nell: My sense from talking with lots and lots of kids is, in a nutshell, that regular contact is extremely important to children. It reassures them that their parent is safe, that they have not been abandoned, lets them ask questions, express feelings (including anger) that might otherwise remain bottled up, and forms the basis for a relationship when the parent gets out. Obviously each situation is different�as your own experience reveals�but the research that has been done on various kinds of parent/child separation (including that caused by parental incarceration) indicates that kids and parents both do better when there is meaningful regular contact.
Carol Murch, Vancouver, WA: How can concerned citizens best advocate for legislative change to create policies for prison reform that is more family friendly?
Nell: Looks like you are in Washington State? I was just in Tacoma where I sat in on a meeting of a legislative task force which is submitting a terrific roster of family-friendly legislation to the legislature—I would think there's plenty of room for citizen involvement here. I think this is so important—there has been a well-documented swing in public opinion towards rehabilitation, community placement, support for families, etc.—but the politicians overall have not caught up and think they still need to be "tough on crime" (which often means tough on families). Let them know that this is not what their constituents are looking for in order to feel safe.
DC: Any differences by race/ ethnicity? Any differences by the age of the child at the time the parent was incarcerated?
Nell: There are certainly difference in the rate of parental incarceration�black children are nine times more likely than white to have an incarcerated parent, and Latino children three times more likely. These disparities�which reflect racial disparities at every step of the criminal justice process (for example, blacks use drugs at almost exactly the same rate as whites, and comprise about 14 percent of the nation�s drug users, but make up 74 PERCENT of the nation�s drug prisoners. The impact of these disparities is felt not just by individual children but by entire communities.
Re age: Yes, children are affected differently based on their age at the time a parent is incarcerated. These differences are too numerous to list now�and of course are compounded by differences among individual children and families�but if you check out the website for the Center for Children of Incarcerated Parents [5] in Pasadena, Denise Johnston has put together valuable materials on how children are affected by a parent�s incarceration and various developmental stages.
Susan, CFK: I was wondering if you are aware of any programs that use the Internet to help children stay in touch with incarcerated parents — through webcam visits, or something like that. With so many prisoners housed so far from their children's homes, it seems like a potentially useful approach.
Nell: Prisoners are not allowed access to the Internet per se except under very controlled conditions. There are a few programs that offer webcam visits under these conditions—I visited one in Washington, D.C. In this instance (it was run by Carol Fennelly and her Hope House [6] program) it was necessary because D.C. houses its prisoners in private prisons out of state. It was sort of lovely and painful to watch—the kids clearly hungered for contact w/their parent, but they also clearly needed more. Fennelly also organizes week-long onsite summer camps w/children and parents. As with the storybooks, I think this stuff is "better than nothing"—let's encourage it, but never as a subsitute for the harder and much more necessary changes, like keeping prisoners close to their families whether or not there is a cheaper bed available in a private prison a few states over.
Margot, DC: Recently I met a person from London, England who runs a program to help children whose parents are incarerated. She says the biggest challenge is the stigma faced by the kids, even among educators. How does that compare to the situation here?
Nell: Yes, it's a huge issue. Some people have suggested that because incarceration rates are so high here, and so concentrated in some neighborhoods, the stigma is gone. I have not found that to be the case at all. Kids feel shame and stigma, are lied to or feel compelled to lie, and hear and internalize the message that they will wind up "just like" their incarcerated parent.
Chicago: Do you have any statistics on the number of teenage parents that are incarcerated (or in detention)?
Nell: I don't have stats in front of me but I will tell you this—when I've read from the book in juvenile halls and asked the kids how many are parents, about half the hands go up. It's a real issue and one that is even more invisible than parental incarceration generally.
Bill Christeson, Washington D.C. Fight Crime: Invest in Kids: The Surgeon General's Report [7] on youth violence shows that anti-social parents are a leading risk factor for violence, particularly in younger children. How do we encourage loving, supportive relationships when possible while protecting children from being schooled in violence or crime especially by fathers?
Nell: Another complex question. My sense has been that the best in-custody parenting programs combine tailored parenting instruction (by tailored, I mean specifically designed for incarcerated parents) with enhanced visitation. I look at two such programs in my book�in New York, run by the Osborne Association, and in Oregon, where the Oregon Social Learning Center [8] has designed the parenting curriculum used in the prisons.
In each case, these programs encourage parents to be both connected and accountable to their children (in ways appropriate to their age) in order to �school� them in pro-social behavior rather than in crime. Simply keeping children away from an incarcerated parent does not generally achieve this end�in fact, children are inclined to romanticize a parent with whom they are denied contact (or to demonize him, which can be equally damaging). When a parent is in a genuinely rehabilitative environment or program, and kids can witness his transformation, it is a morally powerful experience for them.
Jane, Michigan: Have you any experience in Michigan—is it best to begin with legislation or trying to affect policy within the corrections or criminal justice system? Could you share the legislative package from WA?
Nell: Dee Crocker (dacrocker@doc1.wa.gov [9]) is the best contact re the Washington legislative package. Also look at the website for the Children's Justice Alliance [10] in Oregon—they passed legislation several years ago that is an excellent model. I think the question of how it is best to begin probably varies from state to state. I know there has been pioneering work done in Michigan around serving children of incarcerated parents.
Yolanda, Missouri: Do you have suggestions for where or how we can get training in issues specific to parenting from behind bars? Are there conferences or seminars you are familiar with?
Nell: Denise Johnston at the Center for Children of Incarcerated Parents in Pasadena, CA, offers regular trainings. Family and Corrections Network [11] in VA offers teletrainings, and they can also put you in touch with Ann Edelist-Estrin, a therapist and very experienced trainer who does trainings on this around the country.
Roshin Mathew, Washington, DC: Have you noticed a difference between the way private prisons and public prisons provide services to the children of incarcerated parents?
Nell: I don't know the answer to this except to say that very few prisons provide any "services" to children of incarcerated parents, period. The main issue affecting children in terms of private prisons is that once you are in the private prison system you can generally be shipped around the country—from Hawai'i, for instance, to the mainland—and it becomes prohibatively expensive for your children to visit you.
Dave Carbone, Hightstown: Do children of incarcerated have any specific legal rights with respect to being able to have a say as to what interaction, if any, they may want to have or not have with the incarcerated parent once released?
Nell: In generally children have few recognized rights, and little say, at any step of the criminal justice process (on this note I�d refer you to the website for the San Francisco Children of Incarcerated Parents Partnership�www.sfcipp.org�we�ve developed a bill of rights for children of incarcerated parents, and are working to make these rights realities. Similar efforts are underway in New York, Arkansas and elsewhere). In terms specifically of a parent who has been released, it depends on the custody situation and, on the ground, often on the relationships among (adult) family members. Hard to offer a blanket answer.
Danielle, Vermont: We are finding that many children of incarcerated parents end up in kinship care arrangements (often with their grandmothers). I know there are a few organizations like Grandparents as Parents [12], and Kin as Parents, etc... that support kin caregivers. However, AARP and child welfare agencies often do not offer these folks financial resources to help them support the children in their care. This can result in kin being reluctant to provide care at all - causing the child to end up in foster care (where they do get financial benefits), or for the kin provider to not adopt if a child is TPR'd (ie, parental rights terminated). What kinds of supportive policies are states adopting to offer more supports to kinship caretakers so they can best support the children in their care (and therefore create more stability for these children within their family of origin rather than foster care)?
Nell: Great question—and sorry to keep saying this, but I have a whole chapter that addresses it. Arkansas Voice for the Children Left Behind does wonderful work with grandmothers, including helping them develop an advocacy voice around guardianship subsidies, which would address exactly the problem you are raising. Yes, let's get AARP involved!
Cathy, AR: It seems like we've reached a point where "law and order" trumps the well-being of children. I'm not saying people should not pay for their crimes, but when children are involved, shouldn't there be some consideration for the imact on them?
Nell: Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. And here's the great irony: There is in fact no opposition between law-and-order and the well-being of children. Children don't want their parents left alone to use drugs, commit crimes, etc.—what they want (need and deserve) is a response that fixes the problem and sends their parents home rehabilitated and able to care for them. There is little evidence that locking people up at record rates is making us safer. One of my favorite quotes is from the criminologist Stephen Richards: "A successful corrections system doesn't grow. If they were correcting anybody, they'd shrink." Nationwide, we have a two-thirds recidivism rate. Programs that offer genuine opportunites for rehabilitation—rather than simply asking people to "pay"—keep us safer and meet children's needs better.
J KELSEY Arizona: Is it mentally okay for any child to see their parents incarcerated, and have explained the truth to why they are visiting their parents in this condition? They would not have any physical contact. Why not just have them connect through telephone or letters and leave out the harsh view of seeing their parent incarcerated? I'm not on either side or the fence on this one. I believe it is up to the child�s mental state, and it's my job to protect the child I'm caring for. I would like to hear both sides of this issue.
Nell: Some caretakers do feel that because visiting conditions in many prisons (and especially jails, where children are often forced to endure �window visits� with glass and a telephone) are so harsh and sometimes frightening, they are protecting children by forbidding them to visit an incarcerated parent. Having been in prison and jail visiting rooms, I can certainly understand this impulse�and as always, every child and every situation is unique.
However, I would say this: Over and over, children told me that the only thing worse than visiting an incarcerated parent is NOT visiting an incarcerated parent. Children rarely feel protected by being denied physical access to a parent; instead, they feel rejected, abandoned, confused, at fault, etc. �Am I so bad that even my mother does not want to see me?� Small children may construct dungeons of the imagination that are worse than the reality if they are denied access to that reality. Research bears out what chlidren told me (that they do better overall if they have contact with a parent from whom they are separated).
So to my mind, the best way to protect children is to support them in every way possible before, during and after a visit�including sometimes riding out the emotional storms that may follow that visit�and also to advocate for more humane, child-friendly visiting conditions (see, for example, my chapter on visiting, which describes the children�s center at Sing Sing prison). There is no reason prison visits need be as hard on kids as they now are in many prisons�it is well within our power to create visiting conditions that are far less frightening and humiliating than is now the norm.
DM, Alabama: I am the daughter of parents who have been incarcerated on and off throughout my entire life. I know I would not be where I am today without the loving support of my extended family who stood by my side. I know this is sometimes difficult to do because often times relatives have been "burned" so many times by the parents, but it is so important and made all the difference in the world in my situation. I rarely visited my parents while they were incarcerated, but I held on to every letter they wrote. While I know that such minimal face to face contact was not ideal, I was reminded on a regular basis how much they cared for me and wanted me to learn from their missteps.
Nell: Thank you—this is so important to hear. We all need to honor families like yours that have fought to remain families under difficult conditions.
Bluffton, South Carolina What role if any have faith based organizations played in serving this population and what do you see as their potential role in the future?
Nell: Faith-based organizations have been among the first to reach to children of incarcerated parents�through programs that provide Christmas gifts, mentoring initiatives, etc. In terms of the future, I think these groups can be most effective in serving children if they see helping children sustain positive relationships with their parents as part of the mandate (the mentor will likely be gone in a year or two, but the child will always have that parent).
More and more, in my conversations with those doing this work through their churches, I am beginning to see this happen. A woman who came to one of my readings told me she wrapped gifts for her church but it always made her angry�why did she have to write a card telling the child the gift came from Mom when Mom didn�t even have it together to stay out of prison? After seeing the book and coming to understand the child�s perspective, her view changed�it wasn�t about whether the mother �deserved� credit for the gift; it was about the child�s needs.
Susan, CFK: The comment from DM had me wondering if you have encountered any activists in this area who were motivated by their experiences as the children of prisoners. This is a population that really understands what the kids need.
Nell: Absolutely. I have no question that "the children will lead us on this issue." Emani Davis and Chesa Boudin are two young people who have made a powerful contribution as advocates an activists already, and there are many, many more. I think those of us who are concerned about this issue need to make a concerted effort not only to include young people who have had this experience in our own work but genuinely to cede the reigns. Any genuine civil rights movement—which I believe this is becoming—is led by those affected.
Susan, CFK: We're about to go off-line. Nell, if there were one thing a person could do today to help these children, what would you suggest?
Nell: I think I'd answer that in the words of a young man who was born in prison (his mother had a drug problem) and later saw her parental rights severed: "What would have helped me most is compassion for my mom." I think a criminal justice system that answered children's needs—that worked to solve the problem that led to incarceration and bring the parent home whole, rehabilitated and able to care for them—would work better on its own terms as well.
Susan, CFK: That�s all we have time for, thanks for the great questions � and Nell, thanks for being with us.